Wednesday, August 10, 2022
Chat transcript from SRM 344
Handle Comment
DRW_DominicMorning everyone
kcluneDoes anyone have a question for the DRW folks?
RachaelLCookAre you looking to hire people for the fixed-income side or the equity side?
DRW_Lyle@Rachel: primarily fixed income
RachaelLCookEurodollar futures and stuff like that?
DRW_Lyle@Rachel: yes, and treasuries
DRW_Lyle@Rachel: we also do a lot of commodities, like oil and gas
DRW_Chris@Rachel: The Eurodollar asset class is our biggest product. We are one of the worlds leading market makers in the options on the Eurodollar contract.
RachaelLCookDo the software people have to work whenever the markets are open, along with the traders, or is there some flexibility in the schedule?
kcluneWhat type of work are your software developers working on?
DRW_Chris@Rachel - There is some flexibility, but let me explain.
raviupreti85kclune: hello
kcluneraviupreti85: howdy.
DRW_Grahamkclune: The software developers work on the entire software stack involved with trading. Databases, network programming to the exchange, model implementation, and GUI design work to name a few...
DRW_Chris@Rachel - The markets that our company trades on are open 24 hours a day. So it is impossible to work those hours. Generally we like our programmers to be here from about 8-5, +/- an hour on either side.
raviupreti85Javes: hi
tyrannusDoes DRW have summer internship positions for current undergrad students?
RachaelLCookDo the software people go through the full training program as described on your web site or just the two-week "boot camp"?
kcluneDRW_Graham: That's cool. What languages are you using?
Javesraviupreti85: hey
DRW_Dominic@tyrannus DRW offers summer internships for Software, Trading, and Quantitative Research positions
DRW_Grahamkclune: We primarily use C# in Windows. We also write in C++ on both Linux and Windows. For databases we write in T-SQL on MS SQL 2005
RachaelLCookI saw ACE/TAO mentioned as a desired skill. Are you using ACE extensively?
Mloody2000Question about internships - would it be possible to make an 6-months internship from january to june ?
DRW_Lyle@RachelCook: we are using it for our linux applications. right now it isn't endemic across the codebase, but we wouldn't like to incorporate it more
RachaelLCookAre you using full-blown TAO or just the ACE abstractions?
DRW_Lyle@Rachel: just the ACE abstractions.
DRW_Chris@Mloody2000 : Absolutely, we are very flexible with our internship program. It basically comes down to whatever you are willing to give us in terms of time...although after a while it becomes a full time job ;)
DRW_GrahamRachaelLCook: There are two parts to the software training. The first is to get you familiar with the trading industry. Options, futures, swaps, etc. This lasts for the entire first year.
DRW_GrahamRachaelLCook: From the software side for the first couple of weeks, we have a crash course in writing trading software, C#, and advanced development practices/techniques.
kcluneHow much coding do your developers do?
kcluneand what are some of the challenges you are facing?
DRW_Grahamkclune: Developers at DRW spend the majority of their day coding. The rest is spent on feature digging, meeting with traders, design meetings, code reviews, etc...
johnnylambadaWhere is DRW trading located?
Mloody2000how about coders with financial background - are you looking only for developers or some more financial jobs are also offered ?
writerhow come you're sponsoring the TCO?
DRW_Grahamjohnnylambada: DRW has three locations. Our main office is in Chicago. We also have offices in New York and London. As of now most of the programming is done in the Chicago office, though is used in all three.
RachaelLCookHow is the compensation structured in terms of % base salary vs. guaranteed bonus vs. discretionary bonus?
johnnylambadaDo you have any remote people?
DRW_Chris@Kclune (the challenges question) - There are two major challenges, both having to do with speed: Optimization of code (both for run time things and network transmission), and then time to market.
DRW_Grahamjohnnylambada: No we currently do not.
DRW_Lyle@writer: two reasons. first, we feel that it is a great way to attract top coding talent.
DRW_Chris@KClune - Bottom line, everything needs to be as fast as possible. The more optimal the code the more money it makes, the quicker it gets to market, the sooner we start making money on the trade.
DRW_Dominic@Mloody2000 Several divisions within IT find financial experience a plus, like risk infrastructure and model development. However DRW has many trading and quantitative researcher opportunities as well.
writerDRW_Lyle: I was more interested in how did you find out about the possibility. News? Google? Employees - TC members?
DRW_Lyle@writer: second, it is a good way to get our name out into the community. we aren't a huge firm like UBS or AOL, and this is a good way to publicize ourselves.
DRW_Lyle@writer: one of the partners has had contacts with the top coder guys for a while now.
DRW_Lyle@writer: they approached us as a potential sponsor this year, and we agreed to sign up.
DRW_GrahamRachaelLCook: The compensation for software developers starting at DRW is mostly salary. As the developers become more valuable to the firm, then the discretionary bonus increases.
kcluneAnyone interested in applying to DRW should go here:
writerDRW_Lyle: I see, thanks.
johnnylambadaDRW_Graham: I'm a developer who has been interested in this market for a long time, and have built several toy trading systems.
RachaelLCookIs it possible to have a car in Chicago?
RachaelLCookOr would it be better to sell your car before moving there?
DRW_Lyle@writer: no problem!
DRW_Chris@KClune (staying with the challenges question) - We also have to deal with absurd amounts of data. Upwards of 30,000-40,000 messages a second
DRW_Chris@writer - It takes a lot of creativity to be able handle that much data in real time while at the same time run pricing, GUI's, and order execution.
lexgasDRW_Chris: DRW develops only software for stock exchange markets ?
johnnylambadaDRW_Graham: Yes, I just did
kcluneDRW_Chris: So, what is the draw to working for DRW. Why should TopCoder members want to work there?
DRW_Dominic@RachelLCook Many people have a car in Chicago and commute to work. The public transportation is very good as well. Parking can run you around 150 a month, and 14 a day downtown though..
kcluneDRW_Chris: Why did you decide to go work for DRW?
DRW_Chrislexgas: We actually focus more on fixed income (products based off of interest rate products). They are the worlds most traded products (more so then stocks). Some of our main markets include Chicago Merc Exchange, and Chicago Board of Trade
Mloody2000do you require professional experience while applying ?
RachaelLCookHow much would an apartment cost that would allow me to commute in less than, say, 30 minutes on public transportation?
DRW_Dominic@RachelLCook Or you can live in the suburbs, which are very convenient.
johnnylambadaDRW_Graham: For the right package, I would be -- what's xkcd?
RachaelLCookI live in rural Maryland and am somewhat spoiled by my two-minute commute.
DRW_GrahamMloody2000: No we do not. We heavily recruit out of the top Computer Science universities in both the United States and Canada.
zhaofu(do_ob)Hi, how should be the salary for a recent graduated (BS degree) student?
tyrannusjohnnylambada: a webcomic, they once had the line sudo make me a sandwich, which i noticed in your profile ;)
DRW_Chriskclune: There were 2 main reasons. The first is the challenge. You just wont see the types of problems that we have to code for at places like Google or Microsoft.
johnnylambadaDRW_Graham: ah, yes -- I stole that from a web comic, I forgot the name hehe
DRW_Dominic@RachelLCook: The rents for 30 minutes away from downtown are around $1 / square foot. And for a 2 minute commute probably more like $2-3 per square foot
gorbunovWhat requirements should met candidates in order to get a job in DRW?
DRW_Chriskclune: We are out there competing with the best people all over the world. Its keeps you on top of your game while solving novel problems.
Mloody2000DRW_Graham: being not at Computer Science, but at "Financial markets and risk management" would be an advantage or disadvantage ?
DRW_Chriskclune: The second that it was (and is) very obvious that the level of responsibility that we give people is not a function of how long you have been here. It's about how good you are at what you do.
DRW_Lyle@gorbunov: the most important requirement is that you be a extremely skilled programmer
svnayDoes DRW sponsor a H1B for the right candidate?
DRW_Dominic@svnay: Yes.
DRW_Liz@zhaofu: Our offers are competitive with other firms such as Google, Amazon, Citadel etc.
Mloody2000DRW_Graham: both :)
AbednegoWhich language/system do you primarily use for development?
johnnylambadaDRW_Graham: From some of the other answers, it looks like you're looking for recent graduates. I, on the other hand, have a lot of experience developing -- about 20 years worth. So am I someone you'd even look at?
DRW_Chriskclune: Just because someone has been here for only a year doesn't mean they won't be working on the high profile systems.
DRW_GrahamAbednego: C# on Windows. We also use C++ on both Linux and Windows.
DRW_Lyle@gorbunov: clearly, people with finance experience are preferred, but that sort of knowledge can be taught
stanislasDRW_* : Do you have sponsorship programs for student needing funding for a MS in CS ?
DRW_GrahamMloody2000: If you are looking to program then you will have to have a degree in Computer Science or experience.
Mloody2000DRW_Graham: too bad. Even if I get target at TopCoder ?
Mloody2000DRW_Graham: target means top10
kcluneDRW_Chris: Is there room for career growth?
DRW_Lyle@stanislas: we do sponsor advanced degrees for employees through a tuition reimbursement program
zhaofu(do_ob)DRW_Liz: hmmm ... what should be the average in these companies ? (I just want to have an idea)
RachaelLCookWhat about relocation assistance?
firehellDRW_Liz: .
DRW_Dominic@RachelLCook: Yes.
firehellDRW_Liz: are you interested in hiring only programmers right now, or you hire people who develop trading strategies too?
DRW_Chriskclune: Absolutely-that is one of the best parts about working in capital markets. There is no upper bound on where you can go. There are a near infinite number of problems we have to/can solve. So it's all about how passionate you are. For example:
DRW_Liz@zhaofu: you can expect 20% over industry average, but I'm not at liberty to give exact numbers. Try for more specifics in the market:)
slexDRW_Dominic: Do you provide relocation assistance for europeans too?
stanislasDRW_Lyle: I am a french student starting an MSCS next year in a top-ranked university, any idea for me ? In France, companies sponsor students like me if they engage themselves to work for an internship during their program. Anything similar ?
RachaelLCookYou mean the industry average for the finance industry or the industry average for all software developers?
LarryDRW: how much flexibility is the job? can you move to other departments? (say, maybe do some trading in the future, etc)
DRW_Chriskclune: I started here about 3 years ago, about 1.5 years ago along with a few other people started a trading desk (specifically algorithmic). Now I am the technical lead working on trade development also.
DRW_Lyle@RachelCook: all software developers
DRW_GrahamLarry: There is a lot of flexibility. People have moved from software to trading and vice versa.
DRW_Lyle@RachelCook: The financial industry, on average, pays much better than everyone else.
DRW_Liz@slex: yes, we provide relocation for international candidates but a case by case basis.
Mloody2000DRW_Graham: I will wait a little bit, to improve my TopCoder ratings, as I worked hard last time, it should increase soon. When should I apply, for an internship starting in january ?
kcluneDRW_Chris: Thanks, that's what I was looking for :)
DRW_ChrisLarry: Look at my previous response, along with what dominic is saying
kcluneDRW_Chris: What is the office environment like?
johnnylambadaDRW_Graham: What's the next step, other than clicking on the "you can contact me" button?
RachaelLCookCan employees invest their own money in the company?
xtrais DRW looking for the guys having experience in trading domain?
DRW_Dominic@RachelLCook: @firehell Trading strategy ideas can come from any group, Software, Trading, or QR. We have several quant/traders, software/traders etc...
DRW_Lyle@RachelCook: no, for regulatory reasons. if you make partner, then the answer is yes.
DRW_Grahamjohnnylambada: After applying through the website, the recruiters will take it from there.
DRW_Grahamxtra: Are you looking to program or to trade?
RachaelLCookAre you allowed to employ the trading strategies you'd be learning about with your own account as long as you don't attempt to front-run the firm?
xtraprogramming but I have around 4 yrs of exp. of programming trading systems
DRW_Lyle@RachelCook: No. You aren't allowed to trade any of the products that we trade.
DRW_Chriskclune: It's this strange mix of very casual and intense at the same time. We are all here to make money so we work hard, but we know you don't have to wear a suit to do it. For instance, I'm wearing a t-shirt and jeans right now.
DRW_Grahamxtra: Absolutely.
DRW_Lyle@RachelCook: However, we don't trade stock or equity, so you shouldn't have to worry about personal portfolios.
RachaelLCookI dunno... I have some pretty crazy stuff in my personal portfolio!
LarryDRW_Lyle: what products do you trade?
johnnylambadaDRW_Graham: what do you trade? Futures?
TheCreeepCan you give us an example of an interesting problem you guys have solved?
DRW_Lyle@RachelCook: that is probably fine, but you have to hold your position for 30 days minimum.
johnnylambadaWhat do you trade, futures? fx?
DRW_Chriskclune: We have free lunch every day made by a really nice cafe. We also have our game room. Which has a huge plasma tv, golden tee golf machine, xbox 360, wii, pool, ping pong, poker tables, foosball.
TheCreeep(you mentioned a lot of interesting challenges earlier)
RachaelLCookHow many hours do people work in an average week?
DRW_Lyle@RachelCook: additionally, if you are doing trades on products that we trade, your trades will have to be cleared through our compliance group. btw, these policies are standard across the trading industry.
DRW_Grahamjohnnylambada: We are the leading market makers in Eurodollar Options and Natural Gas Options. We also trade derivatives on weather, crude oil, corn, beans, bean oil, bean, meal, treasuries, and are looking to expand...
DRW_GrahamRachaelLCook: around 50 hrs/week for programmers
DRW_ChrisTheCreeep: Let me start by saying that most of the problems that we solve we aren't allowed to talk about, having said that, give me a second and I'll get you one.
kcluneOnce again, for anyone just joining us, if you are interested in this great career opp. w/ DRW, please apply here:
xinsanexWow guys you have a nice environment xD :)
firehellDRW_Chris: are you interested in hiring only programmers right now, or you hire people who develop trading strategies too?
johnnylambadaI enjoy hand trading the DOW future, YM -- would that be a problem?
RachaelLCookHow many partners are there?
DRW_Lyle@johnny: not a problem
DRW_Chrisfirehell: Both. We basically look to hire smart people. If you gravitate towards trade development (like Dominic and to a lesser extent me) so be it.
DRW_Lyle@Rachel: 8 partners
xinsanexare you looking for people that work under pressure?
abu_gurnahhi there
shalinmangarkclune: I just joined in right now so excuse me if this has been already answered, is DRW looking for people right out of college?
DRW_Grahamshalinmangar: Yes we are.
firehellDRW_Chris: what's the best way to apply for a job? from website?
kcluneshalinmangar: Yes.
shalinmangarkclune: Thank you.
DRW_Liz@shalinmangar: yes, we are looking for software engineers and trading assistants straight out of college
DRW_ChrisTheCreeep: I'm still working on an example...very sneaky over here ;)
TheCreeeperr, Drw_chris, didn't mean to talk about unmentionables :) If you can give a general example of some sort it's ok.
DRW_ChrisTheCreeep: In a general sense, one of the most common problems is working with the amount of data we have in real time. Consider this:
johnnylambadaDoes DRW understand that while the TC algorithm contest is interesting, it's not a real measure of a developer's potential -- no one writes code like you do on TC unless you're working for Jack Bauer.
DRW_Dominic@xinsanex: Like a hyperbolic chamber? You can pressure yourself as much as you like, but the environment at DRW is very casual. We make a point to set reasonable deadlines.
RachaelLCookjohnnylambada: If you're interested in working for people like Jack Bauer, that can be arranged. (I am in the defense industry.)
DRW_Grahamjohnnylambada: Yes. We would hope the code you would write for us would be more maintainable than code you would write under such time constraints.
DRW_ChrisTheCreeep: On average we see upwards of 15,000 messages coming into any given system. Right after an economic number is released that can spike to 40,000+. Dealing with that in real time is hard enough, now factor in real time GUI's that are responsive.
firehellDRW_Chris: do you work with recruiters?
PaulJefferysRachaelLCook: lol
DRW_ChrisTheCreeep: Order execution that is as fast as humanly possible, and models that can price multiple contracts without loosing any of that streaming data.
johnnylambadaRachaelLCook: Naw -- everyone around Jack dies a nasty death
DRW_Liz@firehell: yes we do
stanislaskclune: DRW : is there any chance to get sponsoring from DRW for an MSCS ? As an example by doing an internship ?
DRW_ChrisTheCreeep: It requires some of the most clean cut and advanced threading systems you will ever write (with algorithms that are highly parallel). We aren't just putting small systems together, these things are beasts.
kclunestanislas: DRW_Liz can you answer this?
DRW_Lyle@stanislas: we do sponsor advanced training for full time employees
xinsanexto manage a lot of messages you don't need to give all the efficiency to programmers you need to think also in your infrastructure. (Hardwares)..
danielpare some internship opportunities at DRW?
DRW_Chrisfirehell: Yes, Graham and I actually head up the software side of recruiting, Dominic heads up the Quants, and Liz runs it all.
DRW_Grahamdanielp: Yes there are internship opportunities.
DRW_Lyle@danielp: yes, we do. we're fairly flexible on internships.
svnayhow do u plan to use this competition? Will the top 5 or 10 coders be interviewed?
EmperorofUnivrsWhat kind of qualifications is DRW looking for in its entry-level positions?
stanislasDRW_Lyle: What about people still student ? How much do you pay your interns ? would it be enough to gather some money to help paying an MS ?
kclunedo you pay for room and board for internships, or at least give a stipend?
daguirremwawawiwa, I like
DRW_Chrisxinsanex: Absolutely. It adds another dimension to our problem, we have the money to get the best hardware, so we get to play with a lot of cool things you won't get to touch elsewhere.
DRW_GrahamEmperorofUnivrs: We are looking for coders that are strong with concurrency, object-oriented programming, and quantitative skills.
trssis it possible to turn off user entering and leaving notification here?
tyrannustrss: yes look in Options menu
DRW_Lyle@svnay: we don't have any concrete strategy for interviewing just the top five or ten programmers. we are basically leverage topcoder as a way to get access to very skilled programmers, and also get our name out into the community.
Abednegotrss: yes, Options
svnayok thanks
EdOfTheFuNormalGeek: man this tab feature is so awesome
kcluneWhat will your interns be working on?
TheCreeepInteresting. So one part of it is this extreme programming. And I suppose there are more interesting things that you can't talk about ;)
DRW_Liz@kclune: yes, we cover all the expenses for housing during the internship. Yes, out internships are paid. Salary is competitive
RachaelLCookCan you elaborate on the type of relocation assistance you offer? Is it just money or do you have someone that can help with logistical support (finding apartments, coordinating movers, etc.)?
EmperorofUnivrsDRW_Graham: Is degree important? I'm actually an electrical & computer engineering student and will be graduating in a year, but I'm very interested in the finance sector
RachaelLCookI have lived in the DC area my entire life and am intimidated by the idea of planning a cross-country move.
DRW_ChrisTheCreeep: Exactly.
DRW_GrahamEmperorofUnivrs: A Computer Science degree helps but is not required. If you are as strong in object-oriented programming, concurrency, and math as someone with a CS degree then you are qualified.
DRW_Dominic@RachelLCook: They helped me move from NY, by flying me in to go with apartment hunters in the city, paying for moving costs, and any other expenses. Easiest move ever ;).
padmanabhanpwill DRW recruit non-US citizens also ?
DRW_Lyle@valentino: hi!
trsshow will we get notified of d contest?
trssI mean how do we get started?
Abednegotrss: a message will pop up
DRW_Chrispadmanabhanp: Yes. We do help with visa's also.
kcluneWe just had about 150 people join in the last 5 minutes, so if anyone is interested in applying to DRW, please go here:
ainu7oh, we'll test a limit of 1350 posed on TCO quals
johnnylambadaI'm looking to start a masters. Where does one go to learn about trading & trading strategies and still be part of a masters program. Ideas?
ArneTalking about internships (especially in relation to programming), in which city would one work?
ainu7already over 1300
DRW_GrahamArne: Chicago
padmanabhanpDRW_Chris: how about people who already hold a visa ?
DRW_Lyle@johnny: there are a number of excellent masters programs here in chicago for finance, in particular uchicago and northwestern
Kreatorgood luck :)
DRW_Chrispadmanabhanp: We only accept mastercard...but seriously, international/US citizen, it doesn't matter.
EmperorofUnivrsDRW_Graham: I would say that I am very strong at math, and somewhat qualified in the other two areas. Does your company have any references in OOP, concurrency, and finance it directs the employees too?
johnnylambadaSo, an MBA with an emphasis on Finance would be best for trading?
DRW_GrahamEmperorofUnivrs: Having prior financial experience is not necessary.
ShedalIs there #ifdef analog in Java?
tyrannusdoes DRW do any not Quant trading?
DRW_Lyle@johnny: no, not a great degree for trading
ainu7over 1350 :)
padmanabhanpDRW_Chris: what technologies are DRW looking for in the people to be recruited ?
xinsanexhave a nice day DRW workers!! nice chat, rite now I can not be probably a candidate for you because
johnnylambadaDRW_Lyle: So for trading, what kind of degree?
DRW_Dominic@tyrannus Can you be more specific. We are a very quantitative firm, and try to leverage our programming and quants to create replicable strategies.
xinsanexyou evaluate see the scores at page but because I don't have score for Algorithm competitions in topcoder just for Marathon Matches so I'll keep working to get a chances of an interview with you or another company! see you asap :) don't let us alone in the
ainu7 there are no more spots available for SRM 344 <-- someone said like this
xinsanexdark :D hehehe thnx and again have a nice day
DRW_Chrispadmanabhanp: C#, C++, Java, SQL, python ruby, those are some of the big ones. Windows and Linux where applicable
tyrannusDRW_Dominic: can traders pick a future cause they have a gut feeling about it, or do they need to justify their trades based on a quant model?
ShedalRachaelLCook: What "Python"?
RachaelLCookHow much are you all using Python?
RachaelLCookI love Python!
DRW_Chrispadmanabhanp: Python is pretty sick in .NET
RachaelLCookYou use the .NET implementation of Python?
muntasir_120RachaelLCook: me too
johnnylambadaDRW_Lyle: ok, thx
xinsanexohh well i think topcoder need to let us write more in the textbox xD
DRW_GrahamRachaelLCook: Yes we use IronPython in conjunction with .NET.
xinsanexand modify all the things we type
padmanabhanpDRW_Chris: how about industry experience in C, but good knowledge in C++, SQL
kcluneOne more time.
RachaelLCookThat's awesome! I have been trying to sell my company on something similar (using Jython as an embedded scripting language for Java applications) but no one seems interested.
johnnylambadaDRW_Lyle: (Gotta go...) What schools?
DRW_Chrispadmanabhanp: That works too. C is even better in some cases for the highly algorithmic things.
DRW_GrahamRachaelLCook: We find it particularly helpful in testing.
johnnylambadaDRW_Lyle: Other than Chicago ones you already mentioned
DRW_Dominic@tyrannus You have to be able to justify your idea. Because ultimately the goal is to quantify the trading strategies, to get at the root of their success.
johnnylambadaDRW_Lyle: ok, thx
RachaelLCookSo someone in a testing role would get to make extensive use of Python?
tyrannusDRW_Dominic: thanks. And thanks to all the DRW people :)
DRW_GrahamRachaelLCook: Developers test too.
padmanabhanpDRW_Chris: can i get your email id >
DRW_GrahamRachaelLCook: Developers unit test and then use IronPython for integration testing.
DRW_Dominic@tyrannus Welcome.
jmpld40Thanks DRW
RachaelLCookYes but the website lists positions for dedicated QA people so I am assuming you have people who are primarily concerned with testing.
DRW_Liz@jonnylambada: we recruit at the top programs: CMU, MIT, Stanford, Berkeley, UIUC, IU...
EmperorofUnivrswill DRW be here after the match? i have more questions
DRW_Lyle@Rachel: yes, we have a dedicated QA team. A mix of manual tests and automated tests.
DRW_GrahamRachaelLCook: The QA department will also use IronPython for testing. But we try not to be tool specific. Whatever helps the developer. I use Ruby to help me interface with source control.
DRW_ChrisGL in the competition everyone.
jmpld40feel free to ask more questions for DRW here:
padmanabhanpDRW_Chris: thanks!!
DRW_Grahamjohnnylambada: we recruit at UofMichigan also
DRW_ChrisYah, just post on the message boards, we'll keep an eye on it and answer any questions there.
RachaelLCookthanks, see you all later
DRW_Lyle@Rachel: *waves* thanks for the good questions Rachael
kcluneThanks DRW.