Friday, March 24, 2023
Chat transcript from SRM 345
Handle Comment
harvey6ftSo, what exactly is Boxely?
exod40hello AOLs:)
AOL_Rizwanexod40: hi there
AOL_CarlHello everyone
anandsbAOL_Larry: Wht kind of employment opportunities are avaiable in AOL
AOL_LarryBoxely is a next-generation, standards-based development platform for creating rich desktop applications.
AOL_Larryanandsb: Check this out:
AOL_CarlWe have a variety of different openings here at AOL. We are always looking tfor SW Engineerrs in Dulles, Mt. View, Ca. NY, Dublin, and Bangalore to name a few. If you are interested in finding out more . please apply through Top Coder
AOL_CarlT o find out more about opportunities at AOL, please apply at
harvey6ftwhat sort of skills are you looking for in general at AOL?
anandsbAOL_Larry: do one need to have H1B upfront for foreign nationals?
MinnyHello AOL guys
AOL_RizwanHi guys, yeah Boxely started off as sort of a XUL 2.0 project to try and make it the next-gen version
AOL_CarlA. We look for fresh ideas at all levels of experience. Existing skills are not mandatory for all of AOL's positions (they are for some of the higher-level ones for obvious reasons) but passion and ability to think and learn are most important.
AOL_Rizwanthe goal was to add missing features like dynamic transitions, and animation engine, etc.
AOL_Rizwanfrom there it sort of developed into our base platform to building all of AOL's apps (AIM 6.0, OpenRide, AIM Lite, and ICQ6)
AOL_RizwanICQ6 just launched yesterday actually, it's pretty cool :)
AOL_Keif you would ike to see how cool is boxely, take a look at this lite AIM software at
AOL_Keanyone here familiar with Windows Presentation Foundation or Flex?
AOL_Carl Primarily Java, JavaScript, C, C++,XML, web services, and UNIX. Also, we need people that have strong programming skills, troubleshooting skills, and excellent communication skills.
RyanWhat about ninja skills?
AOL_RizwanRyan: good question, ninja skills are absolutely a plus
AOL_LarryThat is always a plus :)
AOL_Ibrahimadmins: Anyone had a chance to take a look at the
harvey6ftAOL_Ibrahim: I haven't yet
AOL_CarlAt the present time , AOL is looking for people that can work in the US immediately. Therefore we are not doing any H!-B's at the present time.
AOL_Ibrahimadmins: I meant to send that IM to general :)
harvey6ftare you looking for any internships or Co-Ops?
TAGHi here
AOL_Carl AOL has 3 major development centers in place: Dublin, Ireland, Mountain View, California and Bangalore, India
AOL_Kepeople may not see AOL as a software company, but surprisely, there is a lot of sofware development happening here at AOL. for example, Boxely started few years ago as a pet project and now is the supporting several major AOL products.
anandsbAOL_Carl: There was a news that AOL is starting a research lab in Bangalore?
exod40admins: when MM for TCO will start?
TheFaxmanexod40: noon, like every other marathon
abhicoolAOL_Carl: hi, i just joined in the room... i am from India and interested in summer intership from AOL and if positions open then wanna join AOL after my graduation in 2008... can you please describe the procedure for either of these ?
jmpld40AOL_Ibrahim: what is the most technically challenging project you're working on now?
black.phoenixAOL_Carl: do you use perl extensively in your applications????
Dale_MellorSo, what's this Boxely thing then? Why should I care?
AOL_IbrahimAOL_Ibrahim: Launching ICQ project was challenging.
TAGAOL_Carl: What are requirements for internships at AOL? For example are international candidates acceptable ? Field of study in univercity, age restrictions etc ..?
AOL_Ibrahimjmpld40: Launching ICQ project was challenging
AOL_Ibrahimjmpld40: They are now using Boxely and OCP services
AOL_Larryblack.phoenix: On the client side we don't use perl - on the web side we use PHP, Ruby, Java, and some perl.
AOL_RizwanDale_Mellor: Boxely is analogous to XUL (Mozilla's UI Platform) and WPF, except that we've been building apps with it for the past 1.5 years
AOL_RizwanDale_Mellor: it's really been built from the ground up with feedback from our developers
AOL_RizwanDale_Mellor: it's very easy to develop a good looking desktop app using just XML and JavaScript
AOL_Kefew years ago when WPF was still a fancy concept, we are looking for something similar, we decide to build our own instead of waiting for microsoft, that's how Boxely started.
AOL_Kenow when WPF is available, as Rizwan mention, we already use Boxely, a similar XML based UI toolkit, for several year to build prodcuts
Dale_MellorHmmm... I'm yet to be convinced that an app written in anything but c/c++ is a waste of a CPU - even though it is more work to produce such a thing. How does Boxely perform with real number-crunching jobs?
AOL_RizwanBoxely uses a C++ backend for real numbercrunching
TAGDale_Mellor: App written with stupid algorithms is waste of CPU, languages other that C/C++ allow to think more on algorithms then memory/pointers issues ..
AOL_RizwanDale_Mellor: I agreee that making an entire app with Javascript is a waste of CPU
AOL_Kewell, performance, this is a good question, we acutlly do a lot of performance tuning in Boxely and it's running pretty fast
AOL_RizwanDale_Mellor: all of our apps use a C++ backend when needed, and Javascript is used to tie the UI stuff together
TAGAOL_Rizwan: It's simply current JavaScript engines are not so good... language has little effect on performance
AOL_LarryBoxely is great for building nice UI applications.
AOL_Kemoreover, Boxely is a markup language, it probably can't beat C++ on performance, but it makes the UI building process much less painful
AOL_CarlIf what you are hearing about Boxley and other exciting things we are doing at AOL, please apply at
Dale_MellorHmmm... good points about code being clean so that algorithms are transparent, and producing nice UIs quickly makes one seem more productive, but I'm still not convinced if at the end of the day you fall back to c++...
AOL_KeBoxely is not purely relying on Javascript, you can implemente your application logic in C++
Dale_Mellorthat it wouldn't be better to make applications pure c++.
AOL_LarryYou can write apps in C++, but you can save lots of time using markup languages like Boxely for UI.
AOL_RizwanDale_Mellor: An example of using Boxely is AIM Lite - it is purely XML/Javascript for the GUI, but any and all app logic is in C++, including the AIM engine
AOL_RizwanDale_Mellor: following a Model View Control design
AOL_Kei wouldn't say the industry trend is the right thing, but that is the trend right now, Microsoft and Adobe are doing similar things
TAGadmins: * The TopCoder Open is sponsored by TopCoder, Inc. AOL LLC is not responsible for any aspect of the tournament.
AOL_LarryWe have also used Boxely to develop OpenRide, AIM 6, ICQ 6, and more.
Dale_Mellor`Trend' is one of my least favorite words!!
TAGadmins: Are not AOL is sponsor ?
AOL_LarryYou can download AIM Lite here:
AOL_Keone more reason of using this XML markup language is, we have lots of designer who is familar with code
AOL_Kei mean who are not familiar with code
Dale_MellorI find it hard to believe that reams of XML doesn't look like code?
Chamkatest so
Chamkawho is chatting here
AOL_LarryDale_Mellor: Yes, the XML ends up looking like code, but it is still much less code than you would normally write.
jmpld40TAG: AOL is the sponsor, correct.
Dale_MellorHi Chamka, AOL are here - ask them about boxely!
TAGWell .. I believe there is wrong concept - you focus on XML (plan text file) - while focus must be made on engine that generate UI from description
AOL_RizwanDale_Mellor: And, XML is more familiar to someone coming from a XHTML/DHTML background trying to design an app (like our Studio Team at AOL)
Chamkaok what is boxely
Chamkacan somebody explain me shortly
TAGinstead of how it's done - focus must be made on that it can do, what it support, etc ..
AOL_RizwanTAG: YOu are right TAG
AOL_LarryDale_Mellor: It is also faster to add the wow factor to your UI apps.
Dale_MellorAOL_Larry: that I can believe, especially when bean-counters are involved!
AOL_RizwanTAG: Boxely's renderer (written in C++) supports dynamic layouts, with an asynchronous animation engine, and a XML-Based styling engine that works like CSS
AOL_NicDale_Mellor: Bean counters @ AOL are hardly ever involved.
AOL_Kefor example, you won't be able to do fancy transition effect in few lines of C++ code, we have this build-in in Boxely, and that is one of the reason why ICQ, who is also very tech-savvy, want to use Boxely
vahegbroadcast rules ;)
AOL_NicDale_Mellor: Its much more of a time to market exercise, get the backend finished in C++ and pass the UI off to the designers
schristopherazGood morning all
Dale_MellorAOL_Nic: Agreed. I didn't mean the bean-counters at AOL, I meant my bean-counters!
vaheggagik: inch ka? :)
TAGAOL_Rizwan: what kind of controls it support ? tables ? complex check-boxes? allow to create own controls ?
gniuxiaoWill AOL create R&D in China in the near future?
hotblack23Boxely sounds alo like Mozilla's XUL. Can you describe the differences between the two?
AOL_RizwanChamka: Boxely's the UI platform we use to build all of our desktop apps at AOL. It started off a few years ago as a pet project to make a better XUL
Dale_MellorAOL_Ke: I accept your point, but in another universe fancy graphics functions might have been provided as a c++ subroutine in a library...
TAGAOL_Rizwan: Is there third-party extensions of core AOL functionality or users are tied to that AOL give them ..
ChamkaAOL_Rizwan: thank you
AOL_CarlYes creating R & D in China is one of our goals.
AOL_RizwanTAG: AOL's layout is based on organizing a 'box', which is just a rectangle on the screen (note it doesn't have to be rectangular in shape)
AOL_RizwanTAG: Tables are suported ina grid-view, but Boxey's main layout is a flex layout, like XUL
TAGAOL_Rizwan: so ? basicaly it's like one of thouse layout managers in Java ? Or it can do something more ?
AOL_RizwanTAG: One of Boxely's main strengths is that one can *very easily* create your own controls
AOL_IbrahimBoxely is a next-generation, standards-based development platform for creating rich desktop applications. Combining the benefits of a box-based layout scheme with an advanced rendering engine.
TAGAOL_Rizwan: Think about me as person who know nothing about XUL, WPF ... what boxely offer to me ? What problems it solve ?
AOL_RizwanTAG: inheritance from other controls is supported but you can definitely make controls from scratch very easily
ikomarenkoAOL_Nic: is it open-source project?
indiancometAOL_Rizwan: something like ocx controls in vb?
AOL_IbrahimBoxely is designed to enable the creation of rich desktop applications with the same ease, flexibility, and extensibility as authoring internet applications today. Check for more information.
AOL_CarlThose that are just goining us, if you are interested in hearing about opportunities at AOL, please apply at
TAGAOL_Ibrahim: what kind of applications ? Gmail or lame PHP guestboard ?
AOL_Nicikomarenko: ot currently, its a free downloadable preview. We are working with our Legal teams to make it open source. The more interest we get from the development community the easier it makes our challenge
Dale_MellorYou can count me as interested - I won't even look at it if it's not open-source
AOL_LarryTAG: With Boxely you can write compelling client side applications like AIM 6, ICQ 6, and other desktop applications.
AOL_Kejust to list a few, with Boxely, you can build your custom control, very flexible, you can do animation and transition, you have a nice event model, i will say the biggest advantage is its flexibility
AOL_IbrahimAt the you could find Boxely user guide. This guide serves as an introduction to the Boxely User Interface (UI) Toolkit, providing you the techniques needed to build real-world applications.
AOL_Rizwanhotblack23: One of the of the primary differences between XUL and Boxely is that Boxely makes it very easy to create your own UI controls or even complex modules.
AOL_Rizwanhotblack23: Also, Boxely's renderer has built-in support for procedural UI like gradients, animations (animating any property, fills, width/height, positions)
ricardo_flTiger723: :
AOL_LarryWe have written Boxely applications for photo viewing with drag-n-drop on the desktop.
ricardo_flTiger723: :)
spfiambitious: test
mohandaskswhat does NPT in that applet clock stand for?
AOL_CarlTo hear more about AOL opportunities, please apply at
Minnytoo many vietnameses today ^^
MarlaIt's your time zone
mohandasksMarla: hmm. i don't know why it is 15 minutes ahead of my time though
mohandasksnepalese time? hmm
AOL_LarryWe have written Boxely applications for viewing RSS feeds, sceen savers, and Flickr photo viewing.
vinay.emanianyone using jre 6 on windows?
mohandasksah it *is* nepal time! strange
royappaIs there a rapid application tool for Boxely, or does one write XML code manually?
AOL_RizwanTAG: OK, you have a great C++ app but you want to also make a great front-end for it - you can use Boxely to easily describe your application and tie it into your C++ backend.
AOL_RizwanTAG: Out of the box, you automatically get support for making http requests, JSON support, support for storing local preferences
indiancometvinay.emani: yep
forumylI am jre 6 in winows
AOL_KeDale_Mellor: i understand that it will be more appealing if it's open source, however, we are building AOL product base on this technology, as Nic mention, it MAY be open source later
emka207how to disable system message on the chat rooms ??? sometimes it becomes pretty annoying
dipuhey can any one help me how can I learn STL from ground
dipuI want learn details
indiancometdipu: find ground :D
jmpld40emka207: options at the top
ikomarenkoAOL_Nic: Is this just stand-alone framework/tool? "Boxely currently runs as a Windows desktop application, though AOL is working on Boxely plugins for Firefox and Internet Explorer that will enable Boxely to run within the browser."
TAGAOL_Rizwan: okey.. this is much better ...
AOL_IbrahimAt the, you could find a link to "Gadget Building Help"
AOL_RizwanDefinitely go to and check out the screenshots, and download the Technology Preview, I promise the "installer" is just an unzip, it doesn't affect anything on your machine
singlethreaddipu: I use to look things up
richard87hello ^^
AOL_KeDale_Mellor: yes, Boxely can be embed in browser
emka207jmpld40: thanks
singlethreaddipu: and read other people's code to get ideas
mohandaskshow do I change the time zone in the applet?
indiancometdipu: is Boxley pure java implementation?
AOL_Carl AOL has 3 major development centers in place: Dublin, Ireland, Mountain View, California and Bangalore, India if you are interested in opportunities in one of these locations, please apply at
jmpld40mohandasks: update your profile
AOL_KeBoxely is built using C++ not Java
AOL_IbrahimAll, for more app samples build with Boxely, please check
indiancometis Boxley pure java implementation?
mohandasksjmpld40: thanks
AOL_Larryikomarenko: Yes, it is a tool for building UI applications on Windows.
ikomarenkoAOL_Nic: Boxely ONLY runs on Windows? Linux/Solaris/Mac are not soported?
Eryxadmins: I didn't know there was a limit for registration
TheFaxmanEryx: it's in the rules when you register
mishastassenai :(:(:(
AOL_Larryikomarenko: Yes, currently it only runs on Windows.
Eryxadmins: I cannot register because there is a limit
AOL_LarryAOL_Larry: We are considering a Mac port.
ainu7I can't register, either.
erdaladmins: i can't register either
TheFaxmanEryx: yes, we have a limit
mishastassenme too
Yasseryahiaadmins: me too
mishastassenwhen was the limit hit?
koushikme too!
AOL_CarlOpportunities also exist in our main headquarters in Dulles, Va. as well
ecvadmins: neither I
Yasseryahiaadmins: so we can't compete today?
TheFaxmanYasseryahia: correct
Mateusz87can't you read??? there is a limit
bugzpodderwhats the limit
mishastassenTheFaxman: when was the limit hit?
TheFaxmanmishastassen: about 3 minutes ago
bhatty_96AOL_Carl: Does AOL offer job to people outside US ?
klopyrevbugzpodder: hello bugz
Eryxadmins: (I could either run home fast and register and home, or register at my faculty and come later to the competition, I've chosen the first because I did not know that I would not be allowed to register)
bugzpodderklopyrev: hey
mishastassenTheFaxman: so I was seconds too late...
AOL_CarlPlease apply through Top Coder at
ecvadmins: me too
TheFaxmanEryx: sorry, but we have to enforce the limit to ensure that things run smoothly
ainu7yes, it's terrible..
Eryxadmins: I did not know about the limit.. :(
suhendrylucky i register earlier :-D
[hr]s3thadmins:but when dod you announce the limit?
ainu7Eryx: I didn't know I can be a pray :(
TheFaxman[hr]s3th: it's in the rules you've agreed to for quite a few SRMs now
jmpld40Thanks to AOL for the great chat! if you have any other questions for them you can always post on the AOL forum
TAGTheFaxman: you believe people read them ?
mishastassenTAG: :)
TheFaxmanTAG: does that make a difference?
ikomarenkoAOL_Nic: so what's the great benefit to use Boxely? there are a lot of stable open-source frameworks/tools already in the market, why Boxely should be used?
AOL_RizwanDefinitely check out Boxely at and download the tech preview - we want to know what you think
vinay.emaniadmins expect us to read the rules
TheFaxmanTAG: I'm sure they don't
TAGTheFaxman: it does
TheFaxmanTAG: but that doesn't change things
Dale_MellorPhew! Lucky I registered earlier!
mishastassenTAG: `there was once a match with over 1350 competitors
[hr]s3thDale_Mellor: me too... ;)
ChurchillioLOL, signing your name on a contract... doesnt make a difference if you read it or not
Eryxadmins: I think you should have announced that by other means...
TAGTheFaxman: contact lawyers ... if person assume something different from actualy written - he can enforce this wrong meaning
AOL_Larryikomarenko: With Boxely you can write compelling client side applications like AIM 6, ICQ 6, and other desktop applications.
TheFaxmanTAG: you'll have to forgive me if I don't trust your legal advice
slogarbageanikov: hej
ricardo_flTiger723: best of luck to you
klopyrevTheFaxman: I like your point:P
TAGTheFaxman: yeah ... I forgive ;-)
vdodsregardless, there is a tangible competitor limit, and it was achieved.
LarryTheFaxman: are there any plans to up the limit?
root85mincer: Hello
suhendrywow, this contest should be fun. so many coders :-D
TheFaxmanLarry: yes, it'll probably increase after the TCO
AOL_Rizwanikomarenko: If you were building just a normal app with a simple layout, then yes using an open source framework like wxWidgets would be great
TheFaxmanLarry: once I have time to properly analyze things
AOL_IbrahimNice to chat with you all, Please go to and download the OCP Preview installer, check the documentations, and provide us with your feedback via the forums
[hr]s3thadmins: there is no sign of a limit in the rules for this match...
ikomarenkoAOL_Nic: :) Okay, I will give it a try.
TAGTheFaxman: there is no limit on short human readable description
klopyrevTheFaxman: Are the room assignments going to be late again?
jmpld40read more about Boxely here as well:
mishastassenTheFaxman: and the match with something like 1367 registrants?
vinay.emanistress test demonstrated the limit can be much higher. why isn't the limit relaxed or something?
AOL_IbrahimNice to chat with you all, Please go to and download the OCP Preview installer, check the documentations, and provide us with your feedback via the forums
AOL_Ibrahim Please go to and download the OCP Preview installer, check the documentations, and provide us with your feedback through the forums
fadyfawzeyready hammad
mincerroot85: hello from Novokuznetsk :-)
jmpld40Thanks again AOL
root85mincer: Hi
AOL_Rizwanikomarenko: but if you were going to build something that had an interesting UI (think media player, chat/VOIP client, etc.), then Boxely would be much easier and helpful to code your front end with
root85mincer: ??? ?????????
jmpld40best of luck everyone in the SRM
AOL_CarlThanks Everyone and good luck !!
AOL_LarryIf you write any cool Boxely apps, please post on note on the forums at
TAGTheFaxman: as welll 1350 is divisiable by 20 ... why you has pciked this number ?
AOL_RizwanGood luck all on the SRM!
AOL_Nicgood luck to all the competitors
AOL_IbrahimNice chat with you all.. Boxely Rocks