|
| vlad_D | heloo sun_1 |
| subodhl82 | hi all |
| TAG | sun_1: How do you plan to compete with other RAD tools ? |
| sun_1 | Hi |
| tekrei | hi |
| sun_1 | Ok |
| sun_1 | I'm not sure what other RAD tools you're referring to |
| sun_1 | There are a lot of Java tools |
| sun_1 | but most of them seem to aim for Enterprise programmers |
| shakti_sd | is the new tool from sun free ? |
| shakti_sd | for evaluation ? |
| sun_1 | They expose concepts like deployment descriptors, versions of the JSP spec etc. to the user |
| sun_1 | In Creator we're trying to REALLY get to "component based development" |
| sun_1 | As opposed to "Class Library development" which is what most IDEs seem to address |
| shakti_sd | can anyone from give me the link for the new sun tools |
| shakti_sd | and are these IDS free ? |
| shakti_sd | for evaluation ? |
| sun_1 | So I think we're trying to compete with other RAD tools by simply being easier to use, having a great set of components, and having more features than the competition :) |
| TAG | sun_1: Visual Studio / WebMatrix or NitroX |
| sun_1 | Ok let me find the next question -- I've gotta type faster! |
| sun_1 | Ok "is the new tool from Sun free?" |
| sun_1 | Yes and no. We're discussing Creator 2 Early Access, which is free for evaluation. But the product itself is not free. It costs $99 for a one year subscription. |
| sun_1 | Note that you OWN the product at that point - for as long as you'd like. But after a year you need to renew if you want to receive product updates. |
| sun_1 | Ok next question was something about VS.NET or Nitrox |
| sun_1 | I'm not familiar with Nitrox - I believe it's an Eclipse plugin |
| sun_1 | Given that I haven't seen it I can't really comment other than pointing out that most plugins I've seen for Eclipse aim at more expert users - e.g. they include J2EE concepts like deployment descriptors etc. |
| sun_1 | Creator really is pretty similar to VS.NET, although it only supports web apps, not mobile or rich client apps (yet) |
| sun_1 | Both are component development oriented |
| sun_1 | They use ASP.NET, we use JSF |
| sun_1 | Ok I think I'm up to date.... |
| sun_1 | Are there any other questions, or do you want me to expand on anything above? |
| ilham | this is probably a bit silly, but is there any possibility to make Creator 2 smaller + lighter? |
| sun_1 | Not silly :) |
| sun_1 | First of all, Creator 2 is Early Access, and one of the things we didn't get to is performance tuning |
| sun_1 | and memory profiling |
| sun_1 | We basically really wanted to have the bits out there so we can get feedback on the new component library |
| sun_1 | while there is still time to incorporate feedback or deliver additional missing functionality people find they need |
| sun_1 | We wanted this out by JavaOne |
| sun_1 | But we're doing some serious memory profiling and cpu profiling now |
| TAG | sun_1: is it bassed on Eclipse ? |
| sun_1 | we already know of several bottlenecks |
| ilham | sun_1: ic |
| sun_1 | No, Creator 2 is based on NetBeans 4.1. |
| tekrei | sun_1: what about its refactoring support? same as netbeans? |
| TAG | sun_1: why you preffer NetBeans over Eclipse platform ? |
| mess | sun_1: will you be able to eventually import netbean projects into creator? |
| TAG | sun_1: what about SAFE refactoring ? |
| sun_1 | The refactoring support is unfortunately not working well in EA (so in the release notes we tell you to mostly stay away from it) but it will go beyond what NetBeans offers |
| sun_1 | in particular |
| sun_1 | will do JSF refactoring |
| sun_1 | so as you rename stuff etc. all the artifacts get updated |
| sun_1 | Regarding why NetBeans over Eclipse: |
| sun_1 | We're investing heavily in NetBeans at Sun. We want a platform that is based on Java standards. |
| sun_1 | NetBeans is getting a lot better than it was before |
| sun_1 | Don't judge NEtBeans' performance based on what you're seeing in Creator 2 Early Access |
| sun_1 | We have specific performance issues in the Creator source modeller |
| sun_1 | Regarding project import: yes, it's our plan to be able to move projects seamlessly between NetBeans, Creator and the Enterprise tool |
| sun_1 | This is not yet done unfortunately |
| tools | sun_1: What benefits does JSF offer me over traditional JSP development? |
| sun_1 | Regarding "SAFE refactoring" - what are you referring to? |
| sun_1 | Benefits of JSF over traditional JSP development: |
| sun_1 | It's component based development vs TAG based development (and TAG development is a lot more like class library oriented development) |
| TAG | sun_1: ;-)) |
| sun_1 | It's hard to describe this, but essentially think of the difference as follows: |
| sun_1 | - you get to customize your components using property sheets and customizers, rather than reading taglibs and setting attributes in a JSP |
| sun_1 | - you get to drag & drop components on each other to databind or link components |
| sun_1 | for example in Creator you can drag from a textfield to an inline error message to automatically bind the error source of the error message component to validation errors in the textfield |
| sun_1 | etc. etc. |
| sun_1 | So it's a lot more WYSIWYG than JSP based development |
| sun_1 | Behind the scenes of course JSF uses JSP |
| sun_1 | so it's just a really nice abstraction layer on top |
| sun_1 | plus a good rendering kit abstraction such that the components, and the markup they render, are separate |
| sun_1 | that makes it possible for a component to be configured independent of its output artifacts - it could render to HTML, or to VT100 terminals, or using fancy AJAX JavaScript stuff in a browser, or to mobile devices |
| mess | sun_1: How difficult is it to use a different render other than JSP |
| sun_1 | We don't support that in Creator - we're using JSF over JSP |
| sun_1 | But it might be doable by hand |
| shakti_sd | sun_1: when this IDE will be available for use ? |
| sun_1 | I've seen some people talk about it online, so google it |
| shakti_sd | sun_1: to general public |
| sun_1 | The Early Access release is available today, so you can download it |
| shakti_sd | sun_1: wow |
| shakti_sd | sun_1: whts the link ? |
| sun_1 | I'm never allowed to disclose future release days if you're asking about the final release |
| sun_1 | ah, the link |
| sun_1 | e sec |
| sun_1 | one sec |
| tekrei | sun_1:are we going to be able to develop our components easily? (taglibs was hard for me :)) |
| mess | shakti_sd: here is the link |
| sun_1 | Creator doesn't yet have a "component developer edition" |
| mess | shakti_sd: http://developer.sun.com/prodtech/javatools/jscreator/index.jsp |
| sun_1 | Ah thanks mess |
| sun_1 | Writing a component isn't that hard, we have some whitepapers on it: |
| sun_1 | Check out the docs under http://developers.sun.com/prodtech/javatools/jscreator/index.jsp |
| sun_1 | Anyway, it's a bit harder than writing a taglib :-( |
| sun_1 | But not much harder: |
| tekrei | sun_1:thanks |
| sun_1 | You write a component bean |
| sun_1 | You write a TAG class |
| mess | We will be launching dev jsf components as part of the TCO |
| sun_1 | And you write a renderer class |
| sun_1 | hen you write lots of configuration files.... |
| sun_1 | If you want good designtime behavior you may have more work to do |
| sun_1 | If you look at our table component for example, which has a customizer which lets you enable paging, sorting etc, that's obviously additional code to write |
| Pops | finally made it - so is the chat on? |
| sun_1 | But we have a rich designtime library |
| Pops | never mind... |
| sun_1 | This library and the next generation is being discussed and worked on in JSR 273 |
| sun_1 | so compononents you write will work across multiple IDEs |
| sun_1 | It essentially takes java beans to the next step |
| sun_1 | letting you specify things like context menus, component linking, etc. |
| sun_1 | Stuff that most IDEs have built their own abstractions for (each in their own way) since it was left out of java beans. |
| vkirub | Hi sun_1 |
| sun_1 | Hi! |
| tools | sun_1: is Sun using JSF or Studio Creator for any of its sites yet? |
| sun_1 | Btw I think the easiest way to generate a component is to take an existing one, refactor it to rename the classes etc. and then customizing the renderer and properties |
| Pops | sun_1: I've been working on one of the JSF components and have seen an issue with JSC - wondering if it's just me or not |
| Pops | sun_1: it seems that when you add a component to a project - that component's jar is copied into the project folder |
| sun_1 | The new component library that is shipping with JSF is fully themable. And we have an internal "sun theme" which we're using with the library when it's used across a wide array of Sun products. |
| sun_1 | All the web consoles for system administration etc. are migrating to the new JSF version. |
| ashish_kulk | How does it fair when compared to Eclipse? |
| sun_1 | I don't think the public Sun site is running on JSF. |
| Pops | sun_1: so if I make shanges to that component library (ie reimport it) - those changes don't show in the project at all - am I correct on that? |
| mess | One comment to sun_1, for the TCO we are not using studio creator 2 |
| sun_1 | Pops - that's correct, it copies the component jar into the project. That way if you've upgraded to a more recent version of the component library in your palette, |
| sun_1 | the old project can still load and run |
| mess | so some of the questions refer to the older version |
| sun_1 | It's true that this makes component -development- a bit inconvenient |
| sun_1 | What I did was to bump up the version number of the component each time, from 0.26 to 0.27 etc. to force an upgrade each time I install it |
| Pops | sun_1: yeah - another question - at some patch level you improved the process to use complib's rather than .jars - do you know which patch level that was implemented in? |
| Pops | sun_1: interesting - I'll remember that |
| sun_1 | You can't just copy a new jar into your project since the IDE itself also needs to pick up your new render class for designtime previewing of the component |
| sun_1 | I think that might have been "Reef", or update 6 - but get update 7 since we fixed some critical reef bugs in it. |
| Pops | sun_l: ok - I noticed that when I updated to 7 - btw - really liked the update process |
| sun_1 | Basically everybody using Creator 1 should be using Update 7 |
| sun_1 | Yeah complibs help a lot |
| sun_1 | t makes YOUR job harder - you have to do more work to create an importable component |
| sun_1 | But it makes the end users' job much easier - it's just a point and click process to install a component library (which may have multiple jars etc.) rather than the users having to configure it |
| sun_1 | by hand, as in earlier versions |
| Pops | sun_1: talkiing about complibs - is there any consolidated documents on it - seems like the doc on that is spread across a number of things (especially from the wiki sight)? |
| Pops | sight=site |
| sun_1 | yeah.... I know we have a good document on it, let me see if I can find it |
| sun_1 | Here you go: http://developers.sun.com/prodtech/javatools/jscreator/reference/techart/jsfcomplibrary.html |
| tools | sun_1: With Studio Creator are you targeting new development primarily, or do you see people using JSC with existing web apps? |
| Pops | sun_1: of the design time api - what do you think has the best features that component developers would be interested in? |
| mess | sun_1 the wiki we have been giving to people, I believe is Edwin's http://wiki.java.net/bin/view/People/WritingCustomComponents |
| sun_1 | By the way all |
| sun_1 | That link describes how to write a JSF component too, not just the packaging aspects, so may be of general interest |
| sun_1 | With Creator we're primarily targeting new development. We have a simplistic page import facility, but it's mostly oriented towards importing resources and markup. |
| Pops | sun_1: I've read that site actually - the thing it's missing is the build.xml that generates the beaninfobase |
| sun_1 | It's definitely not easy to mix and match JSF plus old JSP taglibs. |
| sun_1 | And old JSP tablibs like JSTL are really not component oriented so you don't get designtime preview etc. |
| sun_1 | Regarding the designtime api: one of the really compelling features it has is the concept of drop handling and link handling |
| sun_1 | As well as being able to describe whether you accept a parent or a child component as a drop target |
| sun_1 | That way we can for example say that a TabSet only allows a Tab component as a child |
| sun_1 | Or if you drop a rowset component on a dropdown we can do a database link |
| Pops | sun_1: I really liked the way it generated the basebeaninfo. In either the wiki or that page, it mentioned that may be expanded to other areas - any ideas what those may be? |
| sun_1 | Then there are obvious things like being able to popup general dialogs on a drop or on a component create, so if you drop a new Chart component you can |
| sun_1 | pop up a wizard which lets the user choose from a bunch of presets (a "wizard") etc. |
| sun_1 | It's very rich, take a look. |
| sun_1 | The Creator page designer has NO built-in knowledge of the components! |
| TAG | sun_1: what about shirting development to functional languages or something a Rational Unified Process with high level of automation ?? |
| sun_1 | It's ALL done through the designtime apis. (So I know them very well having implemented the part which services those calls.) |
| sun_1 | Oooh one new thing we just added is the ability to click on tabs in a tabset at designtime and have the component dynamically switch. Done with designtime apis. |
| KruttikA | Hi there |
| KruttikA | !! |
| KruttikA | I am currently working in TCS |
| ganesh1977_2000 | hi |
| sun_1 | Too bad about the build.xml missing, I'll try to remember to have somebody look into that |
| sun_1 | make the document complete |
| KruttikA | and I am working on EAI Tool |
| sun_1 | Hi everybody... I'm trying to keep up :) I've got a couple more questions from above I'm trying to answer first |
| KruttikA | called TIBCO |
| KruttikA | tis okay |
| ganesh1977_2000 | Hi guys i have only one simple question |
| ganesh1977_2000 | I have netbeans 4.1 |
| sun_1 | The code generator stuff is still being worked on. There are different philosophies here... Having metadata about a component stored in XML versus using JDK 5.0 annotations to derive this stuff from the component class directly |
| ganesh1977_2000 | do i need to download anything |
| sun_1 | This is the kind of thing the JSRs are looking at |
| ganesh1977_2000 | for JSF |
| sun_1 | Regarding functional languages and UML: That's really a different target user. There are lots of enterprise level tools in the Java IDE space. |
| sun_1 | Nobody seemed to be going after the much larger set of developers who |
| tools | sun_1: do you see NetBeans and JSC continuing on as two products, or do you expect more integration in the future? |
| sun_1 | don't really want to "architect" their program before building it - they want to design the GUI, then hook up some logic behind it, etc. We're trying to make that possible on the Java platform. |
| sun_1 | What we've found is that lots of enterprise developers love this type of tool too! |
| ganesh1977_2000 | sun_1: I will wait for your answer |
| thadeurc | Hi sun_1 |
| sun_1 | Hi there - I just noticed there are some questions not showing up in a red background - |
| sun_1 | may have missed those |
| Pops | sun_1: does JSC run on a linux 64 bit platform? I tried to install it on that and the installer died without any messages? |
| sun_1 | Feel free to repost if I've skipped your question |
| sun_1 | saw something about NetBeans 4.1: Yes, that's a good tool for developing JSF components themselves |
| sun_1 | f you want to develop WITH JSF components Creator is the tool for you |
| ganesh1977_2000 | sun_1: if you missed my question, JSF is interated into Netbeans 4.1 or i have to download different |
| air2cold | Is there any great tutorial on the design time API, i mean how to use those DesignInfo, PropertyEditor, Customize interfaces, and how are they used by the JSC ? |
| sun_1 | I think the competition tonight is for creating a JSF component so you would use NEtBeans for that. |
| sun_1 | And test with Creator :) |
| sun_1 | Linux 64bit: I remember there was a bug on Linux only with the installer. I don't remember the details. |
| ganesh1977_2000 | sun_1: sun one most of the time here we receive here is only algorithms |
| Pops | sun_1: I ditto air2cold's comment - the design api pdf just doesn't have enough information on how JSC uses those things |
| sun_1 | Can you install on Linux 32 bit and just move the bits? |
| KruttikA | Can u tell me How is your tool diferent from exixting EAI tools lik eTIBCO or WSAD |
| KruttikA | ? |
| Pops | sun_1: I just switch platforms - no problem |
| thadeurc | sun_1: Why Sun change PersonalProfile to EOL? |
| sun_1 | I think with NetBeans 4.1 you MAY have to configure a library reference to point to the JSF apis (jsf-api.jar) etc so you can reference key classes like "FacesContext" |
| TAG | sun_1: how do you solve documentation problems ? It's very often hard to find good and usable documentation .. |
| sun_1 | Regarding the designtime api: HAve you read the users's guide too, not just the javadoc? |
| ganesh1977_2000 | sun_1: u guys have JUG rite sun_1 |
| sun_1 | There's a 30 or so page document which has several examples |
| Pops | sun_1: yes - it just explained the API - not how the API is really used |
| air2cold | sun_1: yes, I have gone through all the design api doc I can find. |
| ganesh1977_2000 | sun_1: JUG is really helpful than documentations |
| sun_1 | Regarding "PersonalProfile" -- is that a J2ME question? Sorry, I have no expertise in that area |
| thadeurc | sun_1: ok.. tx |
| sun_1 | For documentation problems, in Creator we try to have lots of component documentation |
| sun_1 | So we have a Dynamic Help window which shows applicable topics |
| sun_1 | f you select a component in the palette you should see topics for that component in the dynamic help |
| ganesh1977_2000 | sun_1: but guess what sun here if we submit developments |
| TAG | sun_1: what about creating documentation on user-side ? Any tools to help developers ? |
| sun_1 | We also have tld-docs on code completion in the JSP for the components |
| ganesh1977_2000 | sun_1: we need to have very strict documentation |
| sun_1 | (Unfortunately some of the new components are missing docs in EA2, they're being written now) |
| ganesh1977_2000 | sun_1: otherwise they will fail people here |
| ganesh1977_2000 | sun_1: :) |
| air2cold | sun_1: Can you tell me how will JSC work when we drag and drop the jsf control in it ? |
| sun_1 | Regarding the designtime api documentation difficulty: What precisely is it that you feel is missing? What do we need to add to the document? |
| sun_1 | Ok I got a little lost in the set of documentation questions and discussion there |
| Pops | sun_1: how JSC uses each of the items |
| sun_1 | We're trying to generate as much content as possible on www.sun.com/jscreator (click on developer resources or something like that) |
| sun_1 | lots of tutorials, whitepapers, etc. |
| sun_1 | We also try to have online help for common tasks |
| TAG | sun_1: Is there any plans for WYIWYG editors for documentation instead of current HTML-plain-text style ? |
| Pops | sun_1: the only real good example of it is in the Customizer2 api - it mentions it will be used when you right click - but when is a property2 used or any of the other ones used |
| sun_1 | But I'm assuming you're asking for documentation on how to create components, and especially on how to write good designtime support for components. |
| Pops | sun_1: exactly |
| mess | sun_1: for the component competitions one of the points is how well the component integrates with the design time api |
| sun_1 | TAG - What type of documentation? For delivery with the components? We're planning to support JavaHelp helpsets provided in component libraries. So you'd use standard JavaHelp composition tools. |
| sun_1 | (And I think that includes generic tools like Mozilla Composer to write the html docs) |
| Uranium-235 | sun_1: I've used forte for Java development and for a while it was free. This new product being discussed sounds really cool, is there a cost for this? |
| Uranium-235 | sun_1: All my web development has been recreational at this point. |
| mess | cucu: doing well I heard pat is teaching you bad english at Talbots :-) |
| sun_1 | Regarding Customizer2: ok, I'll mention it to Joe so he can update the JavaDoc. Basically if you add a Customizer2 then the designer will add a Customize menu item to the context menu which when selected invokes the customizer |
| TAG | sun_1: all kind of documentation ... in addition to JavaDoc I wish to see Class Diagrams / code samples / overall overview - and most important is easy to edit and view JavaDoc .. Currently it's like coding HTML in notepad .. |
| sun_1 | This tool is not free: it costs $99. That includes one year of upgrades and online subscription content. |
| Uranium-235 | sun_1: Wow, that is pretty affordable, cool. |
| ganesh1977_2000 | sun_1: which tool is not free? |
| Pops | sun_1: that was actually an example I understood - I meant for the other types (PropertyEditor2, etc) |
| sun_1 | But note that the evaluation version is free to user (might time out at some point though) |
| sun_1 | So you should definitely give it a try |
| Uranium-235 | sun_1: I think Forte is pretty pricey isn't it? |
| Pops | Uranium-235: if you ever have used VS.net - very similar in functionality |
| pinano | hi, sun_1. we use VS .NET at my shop, and we have a heck of a time dealing with .DLL issues |
| sun_1 | Clearly we haven't made developing components easy enough yet. We've been focusing on making the tool (Creator, which supports USING components) work well |
| TAG | sun_1: are Eval EULA allow to develop TC components ? |
| Uranium-235 | Pops: Thanks, I have it but haven't used it yet, I need to find a book or a tutorial. |
| Uranium-235 | Pops: But I've been thinking more and more about using it. |
| ganesh1977_2000 | sun_1: I think NetBeans has the same interface |
| ganesh1977_2000 | sun_1: as vs.net |
| pinano | sun_1: is your environment prone to the same problems (components being unable to be drawn in the designer)? |
| sun_1 | If by "Forte" you mean the Enterprise version (which has markerless roundtrip engineering, UML etc.) I don't know its cost but I think it's cheaper than it used to be |
| Pops | Uranium-235: the drag/drop component style for building pages is very powerful and very easy to use - both VS.net and JSC have definate advantages |
| sun_1 | We're making tools pretty affordable |
| ganesh1977_2000 | sun_1: I don't like drag and drop at all |
| ganesh1977_2000 | sun_1: If you guys remember old symantaec cafe |
| sun_1 | Regarding EULA and developing components: Yes, you can use Creator 2 to test your components (note that you cannot develop components with it; Creator lets you -use- components. Develop these with NetBeans.) |
| ganesh1977_2000 | sun_1: I love that product |
| Uranium-235 | Pops: I don't know that much about web development but I understand you can embed java applets and php programs into HTML (which I've done in the past). Also, I understand you can use ASP. |
| Uranium-235 | Pops: Is VS.net a tool that allows you to use C++ inside HTML code? |
| sun_1 | pinano: "Is your environment prone to the same problems (components being unable to render on the design surface)". I must have missed an earlier question? |
| Uranium-235 | Pops: Or something like that? |
| pinano | sun_1: sorry... VS.NET has problems loading .DLLs sometimes, even though they are still exactly where i left them... |
| sun_1 | "Prone to same problems" - I must have missed an earlier question, can you restate it? (something about unable to display) |
| ganesh1977_2000 | Uranium-235: C# is allowed under asp.net |
| Uranium-235 | ganesh1977_2000: ASP was developed by MS, right? |
| sun_1 | I haven't used Symantec Cafe. Regarding the VS.NET questions: |
| ganesh1977_2000 | pinano: it because of relative path |
| ganesh1977_2000 | Uranium-235: yes |
| Pops | Uranium-235: let me give you an example - you can drag a button onto the webpage, click on it and wire in the push logic directly - no need to get into the ugly html code |
| pinano | ganesh1977_2000: are you sure? i've been looking all over the internet, and can't find anyone else with problems like this. |
| sun_1 | VS.NET is Microsoft's Visual Studio. It supports several languages, but one of its main strengths is the ability to easily create web pages with code running on the server |
| ganesh1977_2000 | pinano: yes I fixed them today |
| Uranium-235 | Pops: So, what does VS.net do, convert your code to ASP, or interpret or run your actual code? |
| sun_1 | Creator has the same user experience |
| pinano | ganesh1977_2000: that might explain it... how do i fix it? |
| TAG | sun_1: Is there any way to buy Creator using wire-trasfer ? It's requere 500USD min for PO |
| ganesh1977_2000 | pinano: Open the project file in notepad |
| Uranium-235 | Pops: Meaning, will a user have to be running Windows or get special plug ins to run your page? |
| pinano | ganesh1977_2000: ok |
| ganesh1977_2000 | pinano: where ever your reference dlls are you will see |
| sun_1 | The way this works in Creator + JSF is this: |
| sun_1 | You design your pages |
| sun_1 | The JAva code runs on the server |
| ganesh1977_2000 | pinano: ../../winnt |
| sun_1 | hen the user presses the button, the page is submitted |
| ganesh1977_2000 | pinano: or ../../windows |
| sun_1 | Code is evaluated on the server, a new page is generated and submitted to the browser |
| mess | pinano: I think you can change the reference to be shallow copy or not that might solve your problem |
| ganesh1977_2000 | pinano: just remove those ../../ to absolute paths |
| sun_1 | With AJAX things get much trickier but also much more elegant for the user |
| TAG | sun_1: any plans for better AJAX support ? |
| ganesh1977_2000 | pinano: like c:windows or c:winnt |
| pinano | ganesh1977_2000: ok, i will try it. what about custom DLLs, like ones in the same solution? |
| ganesh1977_2000 | pinano: same |
| sun_1 | Yeah... We demoed some AJAX stuff at JavaOne |
| ganesh1977_2000 | pinano: it will be better |
| pinano | ganesh1977_2000: ok, awesome. i will definitely try that at work tomorrow. |
| ganesh1977_2000 | pinano: if you create the dlls in onn directory like bin etc.. |
| sun_1 | I wrote up the AJAX details here: |
| ganesh1977_2000 | pinano: *one |
| sun_1 | http://blogs.sun.com/roller/page/tor?entry=creator_and_ajax_the_demo |
| sun_1 | There's lots of info there, including a pointer to a complib you can import into Creator to build this |
| mess | sun_1: that will be very helpful, some of the competitions will be using AJAX |
| sun_1 | It also explains how the AJAX component library was designed |
| sun_1 | so you can read all the source code |
| mike | sun_1: how long has JSC been in development? |
| sun_1 | See the architecture diagrams, etc. (Follow the links from the blog entry) |
| sun_1 | I was the first engineer to start work on Creator, and that was in December of 2002. |
| TAG | sun_1: How to make JSP URL more userfriendly ? |
| mike | sun_1: how many are on it now? |
| sun_1 | JSP URL more user friendly? |
| ganesh1977_2000 | Ok guys, Wish you all Good Luck |
| TAG | sun_1: yea .. if you will take a look for example on TopCoder website it's hard to figure out from URL there are you located ... most of information in URL is in query strng .. |
| sun_1 | It's a pretty large team but I cannot disclose the exact number. If you add up the people working on supporting technologies (netbeans platform, app server) the number is even bigger |
| pinano | ganesh1977_2000: you too |
| sun_1 | JSF is built on JSP |
| sun_1 | so it inherits JSPs ability to encode state either via cookies or via a query string |
| pinano | oh no, i thought the match was in an hour! |
| sun_1 | you can configure if you want state saving on the client or on the server |
| pinano | glad i registered early |
| sun_1 | There is however one bad aspect of JSF and URLs |
| sun_1 | They seem to "lag behind" by one URL |
| AnakSibolga | sun_1: what's the main diffrence between struts and jsf? |
| sun_1 | This often confuses people who start JSF development |
| sun_1 | he reason for this is that JSF allows late dispatch (the next page to navigate to is decided on the server after submit) so the browser doesn't know |
| TAG | sun_1: Thanks for comming ! We have to waste a few time coding solution to same problems ;-)) |
| sun_1 | JSF is a component based library |
| sun_1 | But it's a pretty natural evolution: |
| sun_1 | Craig McClanahan wrote struts |
| pinano | sun_1: yeah, thanks for being here |
| pinano | sun_1: see you around |
| sun_1 | Then he become the JSF spec lead |
| sun_1 | Now he's an architect on Creator |
| sun_1 | Good luck guys! |
| AnakSibolga | ok. thanks you |
| mike | sun_1: thanks for the chat! |
| sun_1 | ok bye all |
